Comments on: The vi input model http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/ A blog on the development of the NGEDIT text editor Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:09:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Patrik http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-114398 Patrik Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:10:36 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-114398 Thanks J, for the reply. I am hanging in the balance a bit, on whether to commit to vim or not. On the one hand, the underlying concepts appeal strongly to me - if nothing else, for it's sheer elegance. On the other hand, I will not be able to use it exclusivly or even for the most part, and I worry about only learning it half-assed. I do code sometimes, but maybe not often enough to keep me fluent in vi-commands. But you're saying that it's possible to treat is a normal editor at first, without being hampered. That's going on the pro list. It's a bit of a shame that the insert mode commands tend to be left out in the tutorials. They would really be helpful in giving you a "way in" to vi. There is also an issue with using other keyboards than standard english. Ctrl-] e.g. is quite difficult on a scandinavian keyboard - Ctrl-AltGr-9. Remapping isn't straightforward either in this case, since the target key is a dead key - it isn't even visible to the program until you press the next key. Same goes for backticks. Thanks J, for the reply.

I am hanging in the balance a bit, on whether to commit to vim or not. On the one hand, the underlying concepts appeal strongly to me - if nothing else, for it’s sheer elegance. On the other hand, I will not be able to use it exclusivly or even for the most part, and I worry about only learning it half-assed. I do code sometimes, but maybe not often enough to keep me fluent in vi-commands.

But you’re saying that it’s possible to treat is a normal editor at first, without being hampered. That’s going on the pro list.

It’s a bit of a shame that the insert mode commands tend to be left out in the tutorials. They would really be helpful in giving you a “way in” to vi.

There is also an issue with using other keyboards than standard english. Ctrl-] e.g. is quite difficult on a scandinavian keyboard - Ctrl-AltGr-9. Remapping isn’t straightforward either in this case, since the target key is a dead key - it isn’t even visible to the program until you press the next key. Same goes for backticks.

]]> By: J http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-114336 J Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:30:01 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-114336 Hi Patrick, you're right. The case for vi/vim is less strong for regular 'prose' than it is for code or configuration files, etc... When writing, for example, an email, you stay much longer in insert mode. Once you're accustomed to it, though, you miss being able to press ESC and start moving around with compact commands. One way I like to see vi/vim editing is 'ESC on steroids': it's like a regular editor, but ESC opens a world of compact & very powerful commands. Since it's unobstrusive, you definitely miss it at least some times if you're used to it. So, yes, it's possible to use & useful for text entering, although if that's the sole use you do the case is not as strong as for code or other regularly formatted content. Hi Patrick, you’re right. The case for vi/vim is less strong for regular ‘prose’ than it is for code or configuration files, etc… When writing, for example, an email, you stay much longer in insert mode. Once you’re accustomed to it, though, you miss being able to press ESC and start moving around with compact commands.

One way I like to see vi/vim editing is ‘ESC on steroids’: it’s like a regular editor, but ESC opens a world of compact & very powerful commands. Since it’s unobstrusive, you definitely miss it at least some times if you’re used to it.

So, yes, it’s possible to use & useful for text entering, although if that’s the sole use you do the case is not as strong as for code or other regularly formatted content.

]]> By: Patrik http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-114118 Patrik Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:42:59 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-114118 May I ask? The starting point always seems to be that you have a file, and would like to rearrange parts of it, injecting some small snippet of text here and there. How suitable is vi(m) for entering text in the first place, making corrections and reformatting as you're going. My guess has been that vim is not the right tool in these cases (since, conceptually, you would normally be in insert mode). But now I see people requesting it for, e.g., e-mail - where you would spend more time entering text than editing it. So, is it possible to use, and get used to, vim as text-entering tool? May I ask? The starting point always seems to be that you have a file, and would like to rearrange parts of it, injecting some small snippet of text here and there.
How suitable is vi(m) for entering text in the first place, making corrections and reformatting as you’re going. My guess has been that vim is not the right tool in these cases (since, conceptually, you would normally be in insert mode). But now I see people requesting it for, e.g., e-mail - where you would spend more time entering text than editing it.

So, is it possible to use, and get used to, vim as text-entering tool?

]]> By: J http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-100984 J Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:07:49 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-100984 Thanks Nat. I do most of my work in Windows, so the window manager stuff is not useful to me, but I've been and remain interested in trying out better window management systems. Windows is not too rich on those, so I'll give Linux a try at some time in the future (when I have more spare time!). Thanks Nat. I do most of my work in Windows, so the window manager stuff is not useful to me, but I’ve been and remain interested in trying out better window management systems. Windows is not too rich on those, so I’ll give Linux a try at some time in the future (when I have more spare time!).

]]> By: Nat http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-97384 Nat Fri, 30 Nov 2007 02:10:50 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-97384 I've had two revelations in my life as a professional nerd, and the first was vi[m]. I tried learning emacs multiple times both before and after vi but ultimately couldn't justify it -- my hands hurt and I was angry after each attempt. The second revelation for the *nix command line folks out there (possibly Cygwin on Windows?), GNU screen and the similar 'ratpoison' WM for X11. They are similar to vi in an abstract way: ergonomics, no mouse or moving your hands from the home row, screen also has vi movement. Between screen and vi[m] I can do almost anything faster and easier than my coworker counterparts, except those that also use vi[m][/screen] :) Nice post and thanks to the many people with useful keystrokes, as a seasoned vi user I learned a lot of really useful stuff here. I’ve had two revelations in my life as a professional nerd, and the first was vi[m]. I tried learning emacs multiple times both before and after vi but ultimately couldn’t justify it — my hands hurt and I was angry after each attempt.

The second revelation for the *nix command line folks out there (possibly Cygwin on Windows?), GNU screen and the similar ‘ratpoison’ WM for X11. They are similar to vi in an abstract way: ergonomics, no mouse or moving your hands from the home row, screen also has vi movement.

Between screen and vi[m] I can do almost anything faster and easier than my coworker counterparts, except those that also use vi[m][/screen] :)

Nice post and thanks to the many people with useful keystrokes, as a seasoned vi user I learned a lot of really useful stuff here.

]]> By: J http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-93725 J Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:31:44 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-93725 Hi torzsmokus, indeed, I have "It's all text" installed - I tend not to use it though, as I don't like losing the context of the web page. But thanks for pointing it out! - Jon Hi torzsmokus, indeed, I have “It’s all text” installed - I tend not to use it though, as I don’t like losing the context of the web page. But thanks for pointing it out! - Jon

]]> By: torzsmokus http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-93581 torzsmokus Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:08:56 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-93581 http://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4125 With It's All Text! one is able to edit Firefox textareas in vim! http://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4125
With It’s All Text! one is able to edit Firefox textareas in vim!

]]> By: J http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-82795 J Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:31:54 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-82795 Ed, thanks for the comment. I'm not going to try dvorak soon but it's good to know that it can kind of make sense. I use that kind of tricks as often as possible, as they help in memorizing stuff, and it's surprising how often there are these kinds of coincidental cues. Ed, thanks for the comment. I’m not going to try dvorak soon but it’s good to know that it can kind of make sense. I use that kind of tricks as often as possible, as they help in memorizing stuff, and it’s surprising how often there are these kinds of coincidental cues.

]]> By: Ed H http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-82215 Ed H Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:18:39 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-82215 Personally, I think vim is great in dvorak, without any sort of remapping. J and K are right underneath the home row, with my index and middle fingers. H and L accessed with the index finger and the pinky finger on the right hand, respectively, and B and W are the index and the middle finger on the right hand. There's a sort of directional correlation between keys on the keyboard and the action they do - it sort of accidentally works out like that, even though vi was obviously designed with QWERTY keyboards in mind. Personally, I think vim is great in dvorak, without any sort of remapping. J and K are right underneath the home row, with my index and middle fingers. H and L accessed with the index finger and the pinky finger on the right hand, respectively, and B and W are the index and the middle finger on the right hand. There’s a sort of directional correlation between keys on the keyboard and the action they do - it sort of accidentally works out like that, even though vi was obviously designed with QWERTY keyboards in mind.

]]> By: Why learning vi/vim still makes sense in 2007 « Programming News http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-75560 Why learning vi/vim still makes sense in 2007 « Programming News Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:00:34 +0000 http://blog.ngedit.com/2005/06/03/the-vi-input-model/#comment-75560 [...] read more | digg story [...] […] read more | digg story […]

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